2022.01.12 TC MTG AGENDA & MINUTES
Town of Leeds
Town Council Meeting for
Wednesday, January 12 2022
Regular Meeting 7 PM
- Call to Order/Roll Call:
a. Oath of Office: Bill Hoster – Mayor
b. Oath of Office: Ron Cundick & Danielle Stirling – Town Councilmember
Mayor Hoster called to order the regular meeting of the Leeds Town Council at 7 PM on Wednesday, January 12. This was an in-person meeting with an electronic option.
MAYOR: BILL HOSTER
COUNCILMEMBER: DANIELLE STIRLING
COUNCILMEMBER: RON CUNDICK
COUNCILMEMBER: STEPHEN WILSON
COUNCILMEMBER: LORRIE HUNSAKER
2. Pledge of Allegiance:
3. Declaration of Abstentions or Conflicts: None
4. Approval of Consent Agenda
Councilmember Stirling moved to approve tonight’s agenda and meeting minutes of December 8, 2021. 2nd by Councilmember Hunsaker. Motion passed in a Roll Call Vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
MAYOR: Bill HOSTER
COUNCILMEMBER: DANIELLE STIRLING
COUNCILMEMBER: RON CUNDICK
COUNCILMEMBER: STEPHEN WILSON
COUNCILMEMBER: LORRIE HUNSAKER
5. Citizen Comments:
Kohl Furley – Battalion Chief of HVFSSD: I am going to give an update on how things have gone. We closed out 2021 with 4,500 calls for service. To give an insight of the call group we see, in 2020 we had 4,083. In 2019, we closed out with 3,619. We are going up pretty steady every year. With 2021 closing out at 4,500, that averages us around 12 to 13 calls a day. Station 41, which is the main headquarters for our administration, set a record at 24 calls in 24 hours. So, if I may put a little bit into perspective for you, if they are medical calls, we’ll go, obviously render care and help them out, put them in an ambulance. Transport time, if they are not going lights and sirens, it can be anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes, depending on traffic and time of day. If they are going lights and sirens, you know, we would hope that that would be a little quicker, but their weather can also affect that. So, when you figure the call plus they have to get everything back in service at the hospital after they have passed the patient down to the nursing staff and the doctor staff. They come back, clean the ambulance, especially after COVID calls where our process is almost an hour and 15 minutes to completely and fully decontaminate every vehicle that responded to that call, if there are certain criteria met for COVID-19 patients. Following that, the responder or responders that were involved with the call also have to decontaminate themselves. So, it is a full shower, there’s certain criteria where the laundry gets taken away and cleaned. They will put on a fresh uniform. Next is reports. If you figure 24 calls in 24 hours, that’s booking it. This year, we are pleased to announce that we are hiring 30 additional personnel full time. So that is going to help quite a bit. We have quite a year ahead of us. I know our Chief is looking to get three or four stations, at least the architectural design, done. We are looking to expand that way and provide a better service for people that we serve. Just a couple of things, housekeeping issues, I always say. So, burn season is still closed. But if you are an agriculture zone, person, or property, then you do have the right to burn as an agricultural zone. However, there are some stipulations that falls under ditch banks and tree pruning, okay, so we cannot do a, we call it broadcast burning, if you were to light your whole field on fire, that does not qualify, that has to be done a certain way according to the State of Utah. So that is not just us making our own rules. One thing we do ask, if you are zoned agriculturally, and you would like to burn, we cannot enforce the Department of Environmental Quality rules on you. But we ask that you just give dispatch or our department a courtesy call. So, if that is a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday that our office is not open, you can call dispatch, their number, I can give out the non-emergent number, I think they have 20, but the one I can remember is 435-627-4949. You can let them know, hey, this is Kohl, and I am going to be doing an Ag burn and here is my address. They may run down a few things they would like for you to have like a cell phone, water source, etc. So, we just ask that you help us out with those things. Regarding residential burning, if you have leaves in your backyard, tumbleweeds, things of that nature, which will fall under residential burning. That will be allowed again in the Spring and I believe that goes from March 1 to the middle of May. That can also vary due to weather restrictions, drought conditions or things of that nature. But that is when we open that up. There are two times that we can burn, that is the Fall in the Spring. And again, that will be March 1 through May 15. I am happy to answer any questions that anybody may have for me.
Councilmember Stirling: Do you have requirements for the 30 people that you are hiring? Are there specifications, prerequisites that they have to have in order to be hired?
Kohl Furley: That is an interesting question. I am really glad you brought that up. I am sure as everyone has recognized that, it does not matter where you go, restaurants are closing early, because they do not have staff. I know mechanic shops that cannot fill mechanic positions, etc. So, we had to be creative this year, and look at ways to get 30 people, because that is a pretty big hire. When construction’s good, not a lot of people want to work for the government. What we decided to do, and we are happy to announce that we are the first department in southern Utah which will be providing a full time Fire Academy. We said, we will take people that do not have any certifications. They still must have to have a GED or high school graduate certificate, you know, no felonies, they still have to meet those certain criteria. But we are not asking you to be a firefighter from another agency, we are not asking you to even have an EMT. If you have an interest and you want to give it a run, then we will send you through the process. We are just about to the point where we are finishing the process, and we are going to start the first round, which is EMT school. And then that goes to five weeks of Fire Training Academy. That will be initiated by myself and one other captain, and then by the time they graduate, they should have everything they need to hit the ground running and provide a great service for everyone in our area.
Mayor Hoster: When is your EMT course going to start?
Kohl Furley: The EMT course starts on the 22nd of January. Coming up close.
Councilmember Hunsaker: Is it full, Kohl?
Kohl Furley: Yes. This was the great part. So, we were not sure what we were going to see, we got 106 applicants, so we had a pretty good pool to sort from and kind of take our pick and go that route. We hired a professional company to do a personality and background test, etc.
Ben Gottfredson: I have the property on Cemetery Road under contract. I have time to discuss further in an additional meeting, but I wanted to just briefly state my goal, and then get maybe some feedback on what you want me to come prepared with for my time that I have set up in the future. So, what we want to do with the property is RV and self-storage. I am from here. I know that the city’s given kick back on anything going there at all. But we feel like there is the precedent set with the RV Park and the Self-Storage nearby, that there is the demand for it. And we would rather a local person taking over rather than a big company. So, we want to work hand in hand with you guys to know what you want there and what we can come prepared with for the next meeting to do a good job.
Councilmember Stirling: Have you gone to the planning commission?
Ben Gottfredson: I have worked with Scott Messel. We have had good, great conversation, these guys have been awesome to talk to and work with.
Councilmember Stirling: You first must go to Planning Commission. Planning Commission is the land use authority. They will tell you what you can and cannot do in reference to our ordinances. And then from there, whatever you want to do, they will either approve it or not approve it, and then they will come to us.
a. Dog & Cat Vaccinations at Town Hall with Dr. Bice, Saturday, January 29, 2022 from 1-3 pm
Mayor Hoster: There will be a dog and cat vaccination and license clinic at Town Hall with Doctor Bice on Saturday, January the 29th, from 1- 3pm. My understanding is that if you have vaccinations from another Vet, you can bring those and then still get your license here. We encourage everyone to participate that has a pet that requires licensing.
b. Dog License renewal deadline, Monday, January 31, 2022
Mayor Hoster: The Town licenses are due by January 31 for all pets, dogs, and cats, I should say.
c. Business License & Home Business License renewal deadline, Tuesday, February 1, 2022
Mayor Hoster: General Business License and Home Occupation Business License renewal deadline will be on Tuesday February 1, 2022.
7. Public Hearing: None
8. Action Items:
- Discussion and Possible Action Regarding Final Plat Subdivision Application for Silver Eagle
Mayor Hoster Asked Scott Messel to open the discussion with a staff report.
Scott Messel: Yes, you are familiar with the site. It is approximately 67 acres in size and there are 14 lots. This was reviewed by Town Council in the past and was tabled. It has already gone through the Preliminary Plat process and then they came before the Planning Commission and Town Council for Final Plat approval. Town Council tabled it because they had concerns that they wanted to get worked out. One of the concerns had to do with the placement going out of the road, mostly between lots twelve and eight. At the meeting, the applicants had mentioned they were planning to adjust the road, so it was not so much over some of the area of concern. Another concern by the Town Council was there had not been enough time for Staff and Sunrise Engineering to review the plans and provide feedback. Since that time, Sunrise Engineering and myself looked at the plans. Sunrise wrote a report or letter that is in your packet for your review. The gist of it being that because of the relocation of the proposed Road in that troubled area, and the fact that the site had already been disturbed and was not virgin raw ground, the improvements or work on the site could in fact, stabilize or shore it up more. Sunrise Engineering does not have problems with it moving forward. Based on that, the Planning Commission recommends approval to the Town Council, subject to the conditions listed in the staff report. And I will be happy to answer any questions.
Mayor Hoster: Thank you very much for that, Scott. For the citizens in attendance, this has been an ongoing issue that was being addressed prior to several new members of Town Council. Some catch up is going to be occurring here a little bit in the dialog. So, I appreciate your patience with that.
Councilmember Stirling: We do not have to have a motion. You can open it up for discussion. And then after everyone has their questions, then you can ask for a motion on the table.
Mayor Hoster: There is discussion that has to occur between ourselves and the Silver Eagle Estates personnel on questions that might be happening with regard to the slope matters and the CC&Rs. At this point we have Staff reviewing the CC&RS that have been modified at the request of the Engineer for Sunrise to relieve the town of the complications that Scott just mentioned. We also have review happening with regard to the private road and signage that is going to be applicable at the property. Does anyone have any comments or questions about it at this point?
Councilmember Stirling: At the last meeting that we tabled we had a few as discussion items, that if the applicant would like to come up then we can go ahead and talk with you.
Steve Laski: It was.
Councilmember Stirling: I fully believe that you guys are on the ball with it. I just have never received an updated Plat Map. [Devin Anderson presented plat map to Town Council] What about the Open Space here? Is this considered Open Space that we had requested?
Steve Laski: It is designated restricted common.
Scott Messel: At the last meeting there was some options given to the developer on how they can move forward, and they are calling it out is open space.
Devin Anderson: Notice this says, “Common Area.” and then this is an easement noted through the property.
Councilmember Wilson: That is under your development, not City, Maintenance.
Steve Laski: Correct
Councilmember Stirling: Okay. The other thing that we are looking for is the engineer to provide confirmation of the slope, which I read through, and it looked that he agreed with that. The other one is the language related to the open space not available for development in the CC&Rs, that the attorneys reviewed. Did anybody get the attorney?
Steve Laski: We did forward all that.
Mayor Hoster: The latest update has been sent to Craig Hall. It has not been approved by Craig yet. He received it, but has not approved it yet.
Councilmember Stirling: The whole CC&R packet has not been approved by our attorney?
Mayor Hoster: That is correct.
Steve Laski: It is our understanding that is not a requirement. It is to make sure there is nothing in there that is illegal.
Councilmember Stirling: Mayor Peterson, from the last meeting we had said, “and the other item that I have heard is the homeownership Association ownership of the road, which we would want to speak with the attorney about, understand the pros and cons of that.” From what I understand you guys have officially created that as a private road. Correct?
Steve Laski: Yes, we had a meeting with the city attorney. We also have some other verbiage put into the CC&Rs that specifically states that Leeds has no responsibility for that.
Councilmember Stirling: Okay. When will our attorney get back the CC&Rs to make sure that all the covenants that we required are met?
Mayor Hoster: He just received them.
Councilmember Stirling: I know that there was quite a few that our engineer spelled out for that. It appears that there is some verbiage for the maintenance of the private streets, so that the town has no responsibility for that, as well as the responsibility for monitoring the permanent on-site wastewater disposal systems.
Steve Laski: Yes. that one had been addressed previously.
Devin Anderson: Section 10.15 in our CC&Rs has the water supply and septic system requirements. That was what is provided to you all. And then as far as the maintenance obligations, so the association in 9.2, it calls out the ownership, the HOA have the responsibility for the roads. And we also added in, just to make it super clear, the rock, swale areas as well, as per request.
Councilmember Stirling: unfortunately, I have never received those because our attorney has not approved them. It is not that I did not look through those because I appreciate you having them, but I have not received them. Has anybody else? Okay. All right. And then the other thing that I wanted to bring up is that Devin Anderson, in the last meeting, said one benefit to moving this forward. I guess we were going to go ahead and have the contingencies and then we decided to table it. Devin Anderson, “One benefit to that is then we can go start rounding up all the signatures, LDWA between now and the next Council.” Have you received the signatures?
Devin Anderson: No. We cannot until we get your approval. We cannot start that process. That was the benefit of the approval upon contingency would have allowed us to do that.
Councilmember Stirling: Okay. All right. That was my question. And then I did talk to our engineer yesterday when I received this packet. I remember when we had gone up on top of the mountain, considering our LiDAR picture, there were a tremendous amount of red in this area that is not on the Final Plat. My concern with that is if we decide to go ahead as a Town Council and approve it as is, whereas those LiDAR pictures that show lot eleven and twelve in the front part, next to the road, if they are not in there, then future Councilmen and women may believe that we approved that. They may think that is not a Hillside ordinance problem. What I had requested from the engineer is… did you bring that as well?
Devin Anderson: No, but I did talk with the engineer post your call.
Councilmember Stirling: Okay. Just for the record, I wanted an updated Plat Map with correlated Leeds Town Hillside Ordinance coloring matching the LiDAR mapping with red, which means unable to disturb and yellow, which is allowable with the Town Council’s approval, and the explanation key on the map for the actual map that you will be recording on that Plat Map. Did you have any questions with that?
Scott Messel: If I can say something on that one that maybe rather than colors that it goes to a pattern, whether it is stripes or dots, because when it is recorded in the County Recorder’s office, it will be in black and white.
Councilmember Stirling: I completely understand, I just want to make sure that the red and the yellow that is on the LiDAR is represented in some form on that Plat Map. So, it does not have to be necessarily colored. But for our LiDAR, it is red and yellow. So, I completely agree with that. I appreciate that.
Devin Anderson: I talked to the city engineer, today and yesterday. He stated, he did not feel it was necessary to make that recommendation to the city to make those changes, right, because all homes must go through an approval process. We hear your ask. But that is why we did not change it because it was not a requirement by the city engineer.
Councilmember Stirling: So, my question is why did you pick and choose to put it on this one, if there’s other parts that were omitted? It is either all or nothing. You are either going to have all on or all off.
Steve Laski: You are asking for something other than the 30% and above. You are asking to go from something below the 30%. That was never a requirement.
Mayor Hoster: If I can clarify. In summary. I have had the conversation with Sunrise after Danielle did. I think it is locked, that you cannot build on 30%. That is a given. Right. But, between 20 and 30% does require a future Town Council to approve. Annotating that this Town Council is not saying, “yes, we’ve approved that area” is the documentation we are requiring. We are just looking for clarification. If you are going to file with the Plat Map, it needs to show the 20 to 30 has not been approved for building upon by this Town Council so that future Town Council’s understand that is the agreement as we move forward. Am I stating that correctly, Danielle?
Councilmember Stirling: Yes, thank you.
Devin Anderson: Part of the not making the change was this Plat that has been in your hands for over a month, we did not get any update for a need, for this particular very specific one, we did not get anything until 24 hours before this meeting. To require us to have 24-hour turnaround on these types of things. That is really tough, especially with our engineer in the hospital right now.
Steve Laski: Any home that would get built still has to go through the permit process, which civil drawings will have to be provided, and in the CC&Rs, it states that they must meet the Hillside ordinances, which getting approval between 20 and 30% is part of those Hillside ordinances. So, everybody is going to know that, including any potential buyer, anybody that sits on this Council, anybody on the Planning Commission. It is a moot point. It is putting on another restriction.
Devin Anderson: Just to state, this was not a requirement at the last City Council meeting. We have followed all the items requested. So, appreciate it.
Councilmember Stirling: I guess, my question is then; on this Plat map, do you want to omit all the Hillside Ordinance parts? I do not understand why you have some but not all. It is like you picked and chose which.
Steve Laski: We did not pick. That is what we were told to include.
Councilmember Stirling: Okay
Mayor Hoster: everything that was 30% or more?
Councilmember Stirling: Okay, everything that was exceeding 30% or more.
Councilmember Stirling: The LiDAR map showed different than this. That is what I talked with our, when I was up on top of the mountain with everyone and we…
Steve Laski: The city engineers are in agreement with what is on that. He has a letter to you all that says that.
Councilmember Stirling: Hum, I talked to him yesterday.
Steve Laski: He has a letter that says that. You have the letter.
Councilmember Stirling: Well, that was as of January 4th not as of yesterday. I just received the updated one.
Steve Laski: As of today, he is still in agreement with that, in our conversation.
Devin Anderson: When I talked with him today, he did state that he did not feel like it was requirement to add it to the Plat Map. But he did state, I want to be very clear, he did state, “but it is the city’s purview of what they want to do”. I just want to make that clear. He is not requiring it nor recommending that we add it to the Plat Map.
Councilmember Hunsaker: Do you have a copy of the LiDAR with you?
Devin Anderson: I did not print it, but I could pull it up on my laptop. Yeah. Part of the question is, as you well know, to interpret Hillside ordinance, and to tell potential buyers that this spot, you cannot build on, they have got to go through that process with you because there are little blips and bubbles all over the place. And frankly what you are asking us to do is to devalue the land by showing them that these are all the places you are going to have a problem with, rather than coming and saying to you, this is where we want to build and working through that process.
Mayor Hoster: Well, that kind of argues almost not in favor of what you are saying. What the Council is trying to articulate is that we want to make sure that future Council does not believe that any of those areas between the 20 and 30 have been pre-approved.
Steve Laski: It already states that it must meet the Hillside Ordinances.
Devin Anderson: It does say that part of the process and the CC&Rs. One ask that we would love is clarification. We would ask better understanding of what the Hillside Ordinances are, because it is hard for us and for you all to try and interpret. That is a tough spot for all of us.
Councilmember Stirling: I believe we are going to be working on that in the near future.
Mayor Hoster: Councilmember Stirling, did you have anything else to ask the applicants?
Councilmember Stirling: I wanted to have clarification from LDWA, if at all possible, we could have Ms. McNally come give her interpretation of what we, as the Town Council, need to be aware of to be able to continue this Plat.
Doris McNally Vice President of LDWA: We have been working with these gentlemen for a while, and it started back in January 2021, where we gave them a Will Serve letter for culinary water service letter. So that has been in place since September of 2021. We did also work with Karl Rasmussen and Pro Value to have them do a test for the fire hydrants up there. We made sure that they have enough pressure to be able to meet the International Fire Code. And that is good too. In September 2021, there was discussion about converting water rights over. What happens is the LDWA, each property or each piece of acreage must have enough water to serve that one property. In this case, since there are fourteen properties being planned, to have enough water to serve those fourteen. The developer is under the responsibility of bringing out water to the LDWA, they have been going through the process of identifying water that they could purchase and bring into the LDWA. In that time in September we told them that number one, if they were to bring the water, the water had to come in as culinary water. Water can come in as irrigation water or commercial or stock rainwater, but then it must be converted into culinary water. They have been moving forward in that process too. And they are looking at 12-acre feet, which will be enough to serve the water that will be put there. The other thing is that they would also have to deal with the change of point of diversion, because clearly if the water is not in our current purveyor of water, we want to make sure that could come into our water sources. They have been working very aggressively to do that. We also at that time shared with them the engineering documents for the water right that they were looking at, which, gentlemen correct me if I am wrong, it is 811544?
Devin Anderson: I believe that is right,
Doris McNally: I think it is. They are working on that. This is public domain information; you can search this all out. So, we shared that information with them, including the engineering memorandum. We also shared with them that they should talk to Nathan Moses, because clearly, in our country, we do not own the water, really, Division of Water Rights owns the water. So that is an important discussion to have. Those discussions have been going forward. We just received progress update from a source that there is movement on the 811544 in, they call it segregation, we have received some documentation. One of the things that we know is that it takes time to change water, anybody here who has dealt with water rights, I am sure a lot of people in the audience know that. It can take anywhere from four months to twelve months and during COVID is even taking longer than that. Bottom line is we are looking for the clear title of these water rights to be delivered into the LDWA, we look forward to working with them. It is a process as you guys know. The other thing is this is a great opportunity, Welcome, guys. LDWA for one wants to congratulate you and we look forward to working closely together with you and giving you more information and really learn because we are serving the same people. It is our shareholders, and it is our townspeople. So that is an update that gives you a lot of information. Thank you. Did I miss anything?
Steve Laski: Other than we have more than twelve shares being worked on.
Doris McNally: They are working on more than just the twelve shares. I am staying to the minimum of what we need under our bylaws. And of course, our bylaws are the LDWA shareholders’.
Councilmember Cundick: What is the character of the water right now in that water right? Is it irrigation?
Doris McNally: Irrigation.
Councilmember Cundick: Has any change order been submitted to the State yet?
Doris McNally: Yes, it has. Change orders were initially initiated back in September of 2021. As I said, as of January 2022 a recent communication to us that there was information about segregation going on to the water. So that once again, the two things we need to have happen for the water to be accepted is number one, it needs to be converted from irrigation, to culinary for our use, and then the second thing is that the point of diversion must be made that it comes into the Leeds area so that it is part of our water. They clearly know they are doing that. That is what their new change or acts are supposed to be addressing.
Councilmember Cundick: Where is the current point of division? Is it on this side of the Virgin or the other side?
Councilmember Stirling: It is on this side.
Devin Anderson: Yes, I think it is Washington City, but then it is located near the dump. I know it is the wrong term, but that is the area right now. And I think it might be 815144, but I can look it up.
Councilmember Stirling: It is. It is 815144.
Doris McNally: I am sorry.
Councilmember Stirling: That is okay.
Mayor Hoster: You’re not fired.
Ron, anything else?
Councilmember Cundick: The only other question I had is if the present application before the State, is that just for 12-acre feet or is that for larger?
Doris McNally: It is for larger and there are other pieces I know they are working on, but this is the major one that we are looking at this time.
Councilmember Cundick: Are there other companies involved in the use of this water?
Steve Laski: No. Because of the way it has transpired, we just were not sure exactly how many shares we need to deal with. So, we wanted to make sure that no matter what we had enough. We figured that you know, water’s such a deal anyhow, if we have extra there is going to be somebody that will be using it.
Councilmember Cundick: How many acre feet is the overall application for?
Devin Anderson: By the way, Doris is awesome. We have a total of twenty-four-acre feet under contract. Part of the reason we did that was because we learned through the process from irrigation to culinary you do not get equal acre feet. That is why we purchased, or put under contract, the other and started moving on it. Preliminary shows that our hair cut, if that is the right term, is minimal. We will not need all of those. In the future, we might have some extra.
Mayor Hoster: Ron, do you have anything else?
Councilmember Cundick: No. My question is whether we can approve a Plat when the water has not been nailed down.
Councilmember Wilson: I believe we are just required to have a Will Serve letter as far as the Town goes.
Councilmember Cundick: My point is we have had developments where they thought they had the water, and it did not come through. It seems to me that you put yourself in a very precarious situation if you go forward, and there is a problem with the water.
Steve Laski: Devin and I have planned to live here in this subdivision. We are working diligently with LDWA. If that keeps moving forward, that’s how things will end up being, no matter if it takes another year. If for some reason, LDWA came back to us and said, do you know what, this can never work. We have a Will Serve Letter also from Washington Conservancy District and that is the way we will have to go.
Mayor Hoster: Steve, have you had conversation with Mr. Moses through the State?
Steve Laski: No, that does not sound like it. It was a woman we were dealing with in Washington County.
Devin Anderson: I could have the name wrong, but I think it is Bea that we have been working with.
Councilmember Stirling: He is talking about department of water rights. Nathan Moses is the one that would actually receive your change application.
Steve Laski: We have two different individuals working on that, a water rights attorney, and another person from Cedar City that’s handling pushing all that.
Mayor Hoster: Okay. They have not given you any counsel on that, or any direction on that whatsoever yet?
Steve Laski: What they tell us is that it’s all moving along well. There was lots of parts and pieces, one of these water shares had been part of other shares that had to get separated and then had to get moved. And then I think we are like step three, or four. We are there now. Matter of fact, when we get a chance, we are going to sit back down with Doris and our attorney we brought on to help push us along, we were going to go up to Cedar City with him and meet with the people. What we have been told lately is they are moving on it now, according to them. Whatever that means.
Councilmember Cundick: Thank you. I guess my question is for Scott. What is the protocol for the Town here for approving plats if the water has not been nailed down?
Scott Messel: In the ordinance, it talks about just the feasibility of approval. If you have a Will Serve Letter that functions as feasibility. We do not approve dry subdivisions. If they do not get the approval, the subdivision could not happen even if the subdivision plat were approved by you. You could approve the Final Plat subject to meeting all the requirements and getting everything in line for those items. The final approval subject to these conditions, which is binding, and just like they said, if it takes them a year, then it takes them a year. With that said, if no work can begin on a project within that year period, and there has not been any work done on it, the subdivision plat could be void by State code, and so then they would need to come back through, so it would not be something that ten years down the road, another Council would come in and they would be obligated to approve it or not, it would be void and they would have to come back in through it. It is common for final Plats to be approved subject to conditions.
Councilmen Cundick: So, correct me if I am right or wrong. If I understand the Will Serve letter that they have right now, it says if LDWA gets the water, they will provide it. They do not have it right now. Correct?
Councilmember Stirling: Right.
Steve Laski: Actually, that is not what the letter says. It just is a Will Serve Letter. Again, we have a backup because we have water from Washington Conservancy. The same thing with a Will Serve Letter. But what I actually came up here to state was the actual Plat, if you all approve it, still cannot go anywhere until the little signature block on there is full. LDWA must put their initials on there, Or another water entity. It does not go anywhere from that point.
Councilmember Wilson: Right. So, the water issue is being worked on. But on our side, we do not need to have the whole thing figured out to approve the Plat. At least that is my understanding.
Scott Messel: That is correct.
Mayor Hoster: Okay, Any other comments for the applicant?
Councilmember Stirling: This is a question for Doris. If you would come up one more time. It says the signature block for LDWA concurrence is included on the Plat. Is the only way that you would sign that is when you specifically have 100% of the water in the name of LDWA?
Doris McNally: My understanding is yes.
Councilmember Stirling: Okay, and at this point, you are saying anywhere from four to twelve months supposedly?
Doris McNally: What I am saying. It has been under progress already. So, it is really up to how fast things move along.
Councilmember Stirling: Okay, thank you.
Doris McNally: Once again, the property does have one water right inside right now, because it is a parcel within the town of Leeds, and you are at one share at this time, but they need fourteen total.
Mayor Hoster: Okay. Any more questions from you?
Councilmember Wilson: I do not think I do; I just want to understand Danielle’s question a little more about your LiDAR. You are saying this plat map, you do not feel like everything is there? Is that what you are saying?
Councilmember Stirling: It is not, because see, they have on here Hillside Slopes that they kind of pick and choose which ones they wanted to signify in here. The LiDAR map that I saw, had a considerable amount more. I brought it up when we were on site with the group up there and they agreed with me that there was a considerable amount. So, my concern is, with Silver Eagle’s, Plat Map, why do they have the Hillside slopes up here, if they do not have all of them on there? It is either all or nothing is what I am saying? Otherwise, if we approve this, then future Council Members will say it appears that it is okay, the only available things that we need to look at are the Hillside slopes that are printed.
Councilmember Wilson: But if it states on there that 20 and 30% need to be met and approved, you know, for the 20% and not babove the 30. Doesn’t that take care of it? I guess that is what I am wondering.
Councilmember Stirling: I guess my question is, why is the Hillside slope on there If it is not all on there? We are approving this as it states Hillside slopes on your key. If all the Hillside slopes are not on there, what are we telling future Councilmembers? Does that make sense?
Councilmember Wilson: Yeah, I see what you are saying. I guess I am looking at it thinking… when it is stated the way it is. Maybe another map must be added to it or something? Is that what you are wanting?
Councilmember Stirling: I was just saying either do not have the Hillside slope on there or have the correct Hillside slope on there.
Councilmember Wilson: It may be better to just take those off.
Councilmember Stirling: Whatever they want to do. If there is no confusion for future Councilmembers.
Councilmember Hunsaker: Then, that would eliminate the problem of probable future buyers coming in and seeing all that.
Steve Laski: We’re all for anything that you can approve. So, we can just go do it, then be done. Because this is another change. We put that on there because that is what we were told to put on there and we were told to clean up the static, and that is in your engineer’s letter that agrees with the other stuff is just static. And now you are saying go back and put more back on or take it off. Either way, you approve it contingent, and we will do it either way. We will take it all off.
Councilmember Stirling: Where does it say to clean up the static? I have never read that. I did not read anything about static in here.
Devin Anderson: He discussed that while we were up there.
Steve Laski: This is a never-ending process. Every time we come here; you just keep changing what we got to put on a piece of paper.
Councilmember Hunsaker: We are just trying to protect.
Steve Laski: It is protected. It is in the CC&Rs. It is on the Plat. Everybody that builds a house will have to meet the Hillside Ordinances as they are written.
Councilmember Wilson: So maybe it is easier to just pull those few off there and say that is good. Then, they must meet it for each of the lots.
Steve Laski: If that is what you all want.
Councilmember Hunsaker: I am good with that.
Councilmember Stirling: That is fine.
Councilmember Hunsaker: If I could just say, you have had nine items from Scott’s report. I am certain we have checked all those off. Last meeting, I believe there were five and I am thinking we are pretty close to that now. But I would also feel more comfortable if we just did not have the slope on there at all. That way it gives you guys a clean slate. I agree with Ron, but water is not our issue. We cannot do dry, but they have a Will Serve Letter. Let LDWA fix it with them. It is in their best interest to get that to work. So, with contingencies on that part, I am not having a problem with it right now.
Scott Messel: You could have with the findings and conditions, you have other items that were submitted as part of the preliminary and final plat application, they must be reviewed, as well as construction drawings that are not necessarily on the Final Plat, but they have been reviewed and approved. It would be great to keep those soils report, slope reports all of that in a permanent file that it can be referred to in the future. As properties are developed it can be a reference.
Councilmember Stirling: Scott, explain to the Council in general, what exactly the applicant can do with an approval of this Plat without the water signature on it.
Scott Messel: You have to get all the signatures on it to be able to record it with the County. The developer cannot sell lots until it is recorded. We have this period right now, where we have the Final Plat before us, we do not have the mylar. This is getting ready for recordation. This is the purpose of the Final Plat Approval. After this, let us just say that you recommend approval subject to conditions, and all these conditions have to be met. If there are changes that need to be made between Final Plat and when the mylar is ready because that is the format that the County Recorder accepts the plats in, then staff and the engineers review the mylar. The different entities will have to look at the mylar and verify it and approve it. Often what will end up happening is you try not to pass it around too much because you do not want, not that this group would go and change something after they had a signature, but on a mylar you can erase and change things that are on the mylar. What will happen is a staff member will hand deliver it in the meeting or you give out a paper copy of it beforehand to provide that to LDWA and Water Conservancy District. So, they can really review it before the Mylar’s printed. And so, then once you get all the comments back, they are like yeah, we would be ready to sign it. Then they can print their mylar and then it is really easy go around get signatures.
Councilmember Stirling: Can they begin construction in any shape or form without?
Scott Messel: No, needs to be recorded.
Councilmember Stirling: At this point right now to help them continue forward and still be what we need to do here. What is our, what is your best suggestion?
Scott Messel: From a staff point of view, I feel comfortable that you could recommend approval subject to the conditions that you are wanting to have, that they are addressed before the document is recorded.
Councilmember Stirling: And which conditions do you see?
Scott Messel: It would be the ones listed, just everything that has been talked about?
Mayor Hoster: In numeration, if we recap. Those things that need to be in writing are removal of the Hillside slope on the plat, approval by our attorney for the CC&Rs.
Councilmember Stirling: Is the plat that you guys have different than the one we have in our packet?
Devin Anderson: It is the one that was emailed.
Clerk: You have the last map emailed.
Mayor Hoster: We do have the last one.
Steve Laski: We have done this so many times it is hard to say.
Councilmember Stirling: Where does it say that the Open Space is not developable?
Councilmember Hunsaker: “Not part of the development” at the very bottom, Danielle.
Councilmember Hoster: It is really tiny, but right down here it does say that, and that is what is on this here too.
Councilmember Stirling: I think what, Wayne, our last mayor was concerned about was not that the bottom part below was not part of the development. But what he reiterated is the Open Space is not available for development. I am going to read what he says, “I think that would just require review by your attorney to make sure that it is phrased in such a way that should there be an interest in any future development, it would need to come through a future Town Council. As a Town Council, we are allowed to pass things basis our existing ordinances, we can approve agreements, there have been some for 50 years that have been approved by the Town, about eleven or twelve years ago at this point, but they are agreements that are in place by the Council and future Councils are bound by that. But something like the No Development on this particular land, I don’t believe and I’d want to check with the attorney, that we could bind future Councils, but it could be set up in such a way that it would be very clear that it was not intended for future development, and that it would require an act of Town Council in order to change that.” He is talking about the Open Space, not the space below.
Steve Laski: What space are you referring to?
Councilmember Stirling: You call this Open Space. This is not part of the development, but what I just read from our past Mayor is he wanted on this Plat Map that the Open Space was not developable. I will read it again if you want me to.
Steve Laski: This is not developable. Anything labeled Common is not developable. That is Common Space.
Councilmember Stirling: Open Space?
Scott Messel: On the Plat, you can call it out as Common, Open Space, Certified, or HOA maintained and it can refer to that in the CC&Rs, and it is outlined in State Code that if…I mean, there has been large HOA’s up North that during the last housing crisis failed. We have even seen it in Bloomington with the golf course. They ended up rearranging the golf course, but it took coming in, getting an amended plat to change the open space from open space to anything developable. So, it has to go through the subdivision process.
Councilmember Stirling: The reason I bring this up is because this was one of Mayor Peterson’s recommendations, as well as his concern. So, I wanted to address that so that we all understood that somewhere on here, he wanted to make sure, and he also said that he wanted our attorney to look it over, but it was not intended for an access road of any sort or future development.
Devin Anderson: Mayor, you were there in the meeting with the city attorney to talk through this discussion, we came to an agreement that we were okay with the way it was.
Mayor Hoster: For clarification, what Devin Anderson is referring to, is that during our discussion with Counsel and parties involved, our attorney asked that there are two easements that are provided to him. The one is coming up from the Jessop property of which they provided to Craig as a part within the CC&Rs. The other is that this Common Area is not wide enough for them to do any construction on it, and so it was allowed to be a path, which was going to be included in their CC&R’s, of which Craig was just sent and that satisfies it, because anything outside of that could not qualify with the Hillside Ordinances. It is not wide enough for them to carve into.
Councilmember Stirling: So, when was that meeting?
I was not aware of any meeting with our attorney. That is why I brought this up, to follow up on Mayor Peterson’s recommendation.
Mayor Hoster: Oh, good point. Where we were standing on that, just for clarification, is that the Open Space is not buildable per Ordinance, but it also will be denoted in the CC&RS that it is a restricted common space within the development of the HOA, in the CC&RS. The other Open Spaces are also going to be on the Plat that they file with the County. I think the only two outstanding components that we have at this point really are the removal of the slope on the map and the CC&Rs approval from our attorney Mr. Hall.
Councilmember Hunsaker: And the water.
Councilmember Cundick: You need to add water to the contingency.
Councilmember Wilson: Well, they have to get water separate from us.
Mayor Hoster: Yes. We are satisfied with the Will Serve Letter.
Councilmember Hunsaker: But just put it on because it is…
Steve Laski: It Is a block on the Plat.
Councilmember Cundick: The Plat will not be signed for the water until that has taken care of, so I think it should be listed on there.
Mayor Hoster: As one of the conditions? But how are they able to obtain that before approval? Before we provide the approval, because it sounds like they have to go out and seek that water at this time to satisfy. What I was understanding from Doris McNally was that once they get the approval from us, then they go out and secure that water.
Councilmember Stirling: No, it goes the other way around. You are supposed to secure the water and then get your approval.
Mayor Hoster: Okay.
Councilmember Wilson: But that is from the water company itself. Right? The crew over there?
Councilmember Stirling: But we do not. In this Town, and Scott correct me if I am wrong, we do not approve areas that do not have water for. So that is why we are putting that as a contingency that that needs to be signed up. Otherwise, we will be approving a development that does not have water. Does that make sense?
Councilmember Wilson: Yeah, I guess for me, I see the Will Serve Letter as serving as the contingency. If that falls through that falls on them, not us.
Devin Anderson: And remember we have County as well; we want to do LDWA. But if we need to, County Water is the fire hydrant right at the bottom of our hill.
Steve Laski: You do not want to force us to go that way. We would rather stay down the course we are doing, LDWA.
Councilmember Wilson: It sounds like they are well on the way, just got to finish from what I have understood. So, I am okay with doing without the water on there.
Susan Savage: I might have some insight on the water. I do not know if you are approving subject to that. I can do that during the comment period at the end or would you like it at this point?
Councilmember Stirling: Yes.
Susan Savage: Okay. As people talk about the water, this water transfer moving forward, I just want to say that we have just received notification, all the water users in the area who are separate, that it is entered a protest period, so there will be protests on it. My experience with that is that is over the last years, like since the 1970s, we have understood that water could not be transferred from across the Virgin River. The State is doing a little differently now because as they have studied, and we have had multiple instances where geologists have come in and looked at our area and felt that they knew where there would be water and then there was not. And so that is that part of what the State is; I just had this conversation last week with one of the State Engineers, what they are doing now is looking at different things. They have said geologists really do not know what is down there. And they, the Engineer, said your particular area is really difficult. It is one of the toughest because it is full of finger faults. Not only are we right up against the Hurricane fault line, but it is, if you look at that on the map, it is just like cat scratches through our area. We have had a lot of different experiences over the years with people drilling wells where the water was not potable and so on. One of the protest periods that we protested something that was happening, after that protest period, then the State reviews it and goes through their studies. I just got a response from the State for a protest period that was five years ago. It can take anything as they study our area. He just said to me, we have to look at all these things. We have just seen that change application coming for this subdivision and that period is open. I just want to say that it is my understanding that LDWA does not furnish water. I do not know what they are figuring out for subdivisions that would be bringing in water not for the whole subdivision, but LDWA does not serve subdividers per se, but they serve mini subdivisions. That is for three homes.
If people go to the Conservancy District, the Conservancy District is saying that until we have a sewer system you have to have nine acres for every home. That is just my comment. Maybe both you, and the applicants, and Scott understand all that. I thought for the public who are here to understand why it is complicated. We are in a very complicated area; it is a complicated situation. So that is why these questions come up.
Mayor Hoster: That’s really insightful. On the nine-acre issue with regard to the district, is that still with the high efficiency septics?
Scott Messel: No. The alternative systems like the Renco, allow for denser development to happen. Depending on the number of connections; it is something like if you have seven connections and say, everyone in the development ends up needing to be on an alternative system, they can do community alternative systems, it’s all about someone becomes a body politic, and it is maintained and governed by the State.
Susan Savage, Scott had talked to me about that. And I kind of forgot that I kind of was looking at that nine-acre thing, but it is dependent on the type of septic.
Susan Savage: I guess I just wanted to enter to make everybody nervous, I guess. Just realize the complications that we have. Okay, when people start going to the Conservancy District for water, and they start pulling it out of the Cottam Wells, we now have evidence that they are pulling water from our aquifer. So, the people in our area are going to protest it.
Mayor Hoster: Could you clarify? Maybe the rest of the Council is familiar with this more than I am, but you said there is a protest that is currently happening? With this particular change application?
Susan Savage: With this particular change application, yes.
Steve Laski: That is not true.
Susan Savage: Well, when I checked with an LDWA person, when we got this notification of the change application, and it was coming in to LDWA from another area, then I said, what is this? And they said to me, it is my understanding that it is for the subdivision on the top of the hill behind the firehouse. So, that is what I was getting at. If I am wrong, we certainly stand corrected.
Steve Laski: I heard a lot there. I am not sure how much of that pertained. So again, we are in the process with LDWA that we want to continue. Again, at the end of the day, If LDWA comes back and says, do you know what? We are wasting our time here. This is not going to work out. We are going back to Conservancy because they will give us the water. That is just the way it is. If that is what has to happen, that is what has to happen.
Mayor Hoster: That’s why I was asking if you spoke with Mr. Moses yet.
Steve Laski: We have two people that are talking to them every week.
Mayor Hoster: They are two entities, but they pull from the same water. When a protest happens, it is going to happen on both. The citizens around the area are able to do that; that is my understanding of it. If that is incorrect, I would easily be better informed by somebody else on that matter. That is what I think was referenced. Either way you are going with that, they are pulling from the same area, so they would both have the protest. It is not really relevant to this application. That is not our problem because we have the Will Serve Letters.
Steve Laski: You have the Will Serve letters. That was our requirement. Understand we cannot file the Final Plat until it is signed off, right? So, it just gets us one step closer.
Mayor Hoster: Well understood. Let me recap. The three outstanding matters that we are concerned with at this point: removal of the slope on the map, the CC&R approval by the Town of Leeds attorney, and the third question at this point is whether we need to verify that water has actually been secured for the property or will the Will Serve Letter satisfy the needs for the Town’s authorization? Does anyone disagree with that?
Councilmember Wilson: Question for Scott, do you know if that Will Serve letter is sufficient?
Alan Roberts: Mayor, can I make a point of clarification? Keep it this simple. It is this simple. The Will Serve Letter in the beginning process of any development is one of the key components that has to come in there because, obviously, any development has to be able to have water. There is two Will Serve Letters that go with this particular development unless LDWA, or the Conservancy has backed out of that Will Serve. Now, if that Will Serve Letter states: I do not believe it does, it just says we will serve this development. It does not say we will serve this development if they bring in ABC and D. The Conservancy’s does not say the same thing. It says we will serve this development. That is the document that the Town is looking for. It says a water company is willing to do that. As it goes through the process, before Final Plat can be signed, whatever entity is providing those utilities agreed upon that when they signed on that Plat. It is a done deal. Whether LDWA serves them or says you got to bring some water or whether Conservancy says yeah, we will serve you. Whatever those conditions are, this body already has those two letters. To ask any more than that is going above and beyond what we have ever asked of any development process that has come through the town. I understand the concern, but it is there, it is already locked. This Plat cannot be recorded at the County without all signatures being there. The final signature will be the Town of Leeds. If it is not, you need to change that process. It needs to be the Town of Leeds that makes the final signature. That says, good job guys. They record it. Good luck with your project.
Councilmember Stirling: Alan, can I ask you one more question? So, what you are saying is all blocks should be signed before the Town signs off?
Alan Roberts: I would. Any municipality should be the final signature.
Mayor Hoster: What other signatures are outstanding on this right now?
Scott Messel: What will end up happening, they submit it. They submit the draft Mylar, and either the Mayor or me or someone on the Council will take it to the entities for the signature, such as the Water Conservancy District or LDWA, after all those signatures, usually the Town or the attorney for the Town will be the last one to sign up because they are just verifying everything is all right. And then it will go to the Recorder’s office. The Recorder’s office will take it to the Treasurer’s office to make sure that there is no outstanding liens and this kind of stuff, and then the Recorder and the Treasurer sign it. Before anyone will sign it, we need to get the Final Plat approved, which will kick off getting any of these conditions you have worked out and preparing to record the subdivision.
Mayor Hoster: Does the Town have two signatures to execute on this?
Scott Messel: It calls out in your code that your land use authority, the Mayor, your attorney, the engineer, all sign it,
Mayor Hoster: But the process is predicated on the Town must approve before they can get these other signatures.
Councilmember Wilson: The final signature is at the end.
Mayor Hoster: In this dialog it sounds like the Will Serve Letter is sufficient for the water outstanding. The only other two elements are the CC&R approval and the removal of the slope on the map.
Councilmember Stirling: Can I see the large print of this instead of the small one because I lost my eyesight when I turned forty.
Devin Anderson: I Try not to keep taking this personal. You do not want me as a neighbor.
Councilmember Stirling: I just want to see one more thing and that is it. Did the Engineer request you to put the Hillside slope on here originally, or did you just do it yourself? The original Hillside Slope Area came from the engineer.
Steve Laski: That request came from you all. I am sorry. About that last comment, it was Planning Commission actually had us add that.
Councilmember Stirling: That’s what I thought, because I do not remember us ever saying eight months ago anything to you guys.
Councilmember Wilson: Is there anything else, Danielle, that we got to look at there? I want to make sure you are done with discussion before I go ahead and make a motion.
Councilmember Stirling: Sounds good.
Mayor Hoster: Okay. If there is no further discussion on the matter, my I have a motion to proceed?
Councilmember Wilson moved to approve the Silver Eagle Subdivision Final Plat Map with two contingencies: the removal of the slopes from the map, and the review and approval of the CC&Rs by the Leeds Town attorney. Councilmember Hunsaker 2nd.
Motion passed in a Roll Call Vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
MAYOR: Bill HOSTER
COUNCILMEMBER: DANIELLE STIRLING
COUNCILMEMBER: RON CUNDICK
COUNCILMEMBER: STEPHEN WILSON
COUNCILMEMBER: LORRIE HUNSAKER
- Discussion and Possible Action Regarding Resolution 2022-01, Designation of a 2022 Representative to Washington County Special Service District No. 1
Mayor Hoster: It is my recommendation and motion that Ron Cundick fill this position. Do I have a second?
Councilmember Hunsaker: I Second it.
Motion passed in a Roll Call Vote:
ROLL CALL VOTE:
MAYOR: Bill HOSTER
COUNCILMEMBER: DANIELLE STIRLING
COUNCILMEMBER: RON CUNDICK
COUNCILMEMBER: STEPHEN WILSON
COUNCILMEMBER: LORRIE HUNSAKER
- Discussion and Possible Action Regarding Appointment of Planning Commissioner to replace Brad Robbins
Mayor Hoster: Next item is discussion and possible action regarding the appointment of Planning Commissioner to replace Mr. Brad Robbins. I move to appoint Mr. Alan Roberts to this position. Do I have a second?
Councilmember Wilson and Stirling both seconded.
Motion passed in a Roll Call Vote:
ROLL CALL VOTE:
MAYOR: Bill HOSTER
COUNCILMEMBER: DANIELLE STIRLING
COUNCILMEMBER: RON CUNDICK
COUNCILMEMBER: STEPHEN WILSON
COUNCILMEMBER: LORRIE HUNSAKER
9. Discussion Items: None
10. Citizen Comments: No action may be taken on a matter raised under this agenda item. (Three minutes per person).
11. Staff Reports:
Councilmember Stirling: I spoke with Doris McNally, in an email requested that Mayor Bill Hoster and I attend a meeting and LDWA to be introduced to their board members and create a rapport with the Town as well as LDWA to start facilitating a little bit easier pathway to understanding what is required of the town as well as LDWA, so that we’re able to have a little bit more easy access to know when future development is coming and what authority, thus allowing all of us to be on the same page. So, at this point, I wanted to start that open communication for the Town as well as all involved so that we know what we are doing as a Town Council as well as LDWA. So, we will be doing that, I believe in the near future. And if there is anyone on the Town Council that would like to be included in that we can also do that as part of our meeting where we have an open public meeting so that we all are on the same page of understanding what communication is going on between LDWA and the Town. I wanted to get feedback from the Councilmembers if they wanted to be in attendance with that, or if you wanted to have just two people involved.
Councilmember Wilson: What would be the benefits of more than two? I do not mind joining in it. It is interesting to learn about it certainly.
Mayor Hoster: It would be a quorum so it would be an open public meeting.
Councilmember Stirling: Do we want to do that as part of an open public meeting?
Councilmember Hunsaker: Or a work meeting. I would like it if it was a work meeting.
Mayor Hoster: just for clarification, work meeting would still have to be an open and public meeting.
Councilmember Stirling: Correct. You just have it before the Town Council, and so then the public is invited to attend.
Councilmember Wilson: I think that is a good way to go.
13. Adjournment: 8:43pm
Approved this Twenty-sixth Day of January, 2022.
Bill Hoster, Mayor
Aseneth Steed, Clerk/RecorderShare on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Pinterest